The Muslim Brotherhood took part in the planning of these simultaneous revolutions (in Arab countries) with international parties.
By : MARY FIKRY
Although he began his life with joining the Muslim Brotherhood in Alexandria .. However, he split on the group after a few years , he founded “Civic Egypt’s site” on the net since about one year ago , and Because between this approach and that a vast sea , and Because he grew up at the Muslim Brotherhood school , raised on their ideology ,
For all of that I thought to have an interview with him about: Why did he leave the Muslim Brotherhood? What are their inside system of work? Why he considers the attack on Christians is not random and not bullying, but organized process with a specific goal? And what some religious symbols meant by (We will implement the Islamic legitimate punishment, after we own the land)? The reasons of Muslim Brotherhood refusal of any criticism to them or to their ideology and meet that with threats? , And why he affirms that the ultimate goal of the Muslim Brotherhood is “being masters of the world”?
I present to you this very exciting interview with “Moomen Sallam”, a dissident member of Muslim Brotherhood, Who is full of nice ideas and humanitarian tendencies .
- What is happening now is a process “to break the Christians”.
- Adopting the majority of Muslims now to extremist interpretations of the chapters of Quran, is Due to tow elements!
- The Relationship between “ElBaradei”, Muslim Brotherhood and the American organization of “Soros” .
- Muslim Brotherhood applies the proverb “fight others with loud voice unless they beat you!”
-The Muslim Brotherhood is waiting for the opportunity to apply “Al Hedoud” (the Islamic legitimate punishment) , Do not believe what they said about they care for the will of the people .
- This is what Islamic spiritual guide meant with: ”we‘ll raise the society as we want, till it comes to us requesting to apply the Islamic legitimate punishment of sharia )!
- All unions and syndicates turned into Muslim Brotherhood political unions, and not unions with purpose of serving people.
- The accusation of “scientists of Sultan (president)” has been stuck to Al-Azhar sheikhs.
- Without a culture of acceptance the other, Egypt will be moving into the abyss.
- All the talk about “Shura” within the Muslim Brotherhood groups Is “imaginary”.
- These are the groups who we named them as “central security” within the Brotherhood.
- If the “Education Department” opened its mouse, you’ll hear the sweetest “rubble”, like (Hell with Egypt, the democracy is infidelity)!
- Certainly what is happening to members of the Muslim Brotherhood group is a “brainwashed”!
- Muslim Brotherhood is extremist and closed minded.
• Let us know at the beginning, the reasons for his joining the Muslim Brotherhood group in Alexandria? And the reasons for leaving it?
_ “ what happened with me was that the family I grew up in, was related to two different ideologies, but joint in the rejection of socialism and Abdel Nasser.
My father was a graduate of St. Mark’s school, and my mother was from a religious family and related to “Al Wafd party” , because my grandfather was one of al- “Sunnah supporter” before the Sunnah was appropriated by the Salafis “ , Moomen Says.
He continues: “It is strange that despite my Grandfather was a member of “Ansar al-Sunna” (Sunnah or Ancestors supporter) , both of his daughters were unveiled and they used to wear the latest fashion, Almost every fashion of sixties period.
- And because our family raised us on reading habits’ … Reading all books and newspapers were part of our lives, I started through the different read to feel that there is some wrong with Egypt , and that wasn’t the natural right situation that Egypt must be about. . so situation must be changed and Egypt to be promoted again.
.. This thoughts were in 1986 … I was still in the secondary school … Appeared at that time there was no a real liberal party …There was just “Al Wafd” party which was considered as older people party “Party of who were coming from the history books,”
As also the “left party” was refused, for we were as a family against President Abdel Nasser and against the Nasiriyah experience… so, the Muslim Brotherhood group was the only alternative available in front of me. So, I looked forward joining it, as an alternative to political parties on the scene.
Actually I went to one of the Muslim Brotherhood who was praying in a mosque beside our House … I told him: I want to join the Muslim Brotherhood group.
By that, I jumped on all the previous steps and entered in the “group stage” directly. Add to that, I went through student union elections in the first year I entered college.
• do you mean by your words, that the member who applies for membership in the Muslim Brotherhood group has to go through several stages before “the group stage”?
- Moomen explains: “99% of the Muslim Brotherhood members are being recruited to the group … While I actually joined the Muslim Brotherhood in 1987 with my choice without being recruited,
The recruitment process has its origins basis. The process starts with a friendship between a person of Muslim Brotherhood and an ordinary person. Through this friendship, the Muslim Brotherhood member starts to promote the average person’s mind. The process in which begins the transmission of the Muslim Brotherhood Ideology in the person.
And then Muslim Brotherhood member invites average person for entertainment journey … (jokes, play and laughter) … but in between, ideas and thoughts happens to be promoted to him.
And then Muslim Brotherhood member says: we’ll pray today and feast with all group in mosque, then, we’ll have a pray at night .
Of course, everyone may accept a stage but it’s not necessary to accept the next , till the person reach to the stage in which they tell the new member : (ok , we needed to do some services to Islam and we have to save the Muslims from oppression and restore Islamic sharia law of Allah (the law of God) .
Then, begin the “penultimate stage”, by sitting among a group (yet Junior not the true big group) … to Memorize the Koran and selected books. Of course not any books. this considered the stage for a member to be candidate as a Muslim Brotherhood member in a real test to make sure of its validity as a working member.
- Moomen continues : After I joined them, of course I went too busy in work with them to the extent I became an official of the Cultural Committee at the University of Alexandria .
.. Of course, during that period, I continued to read several different reading because it is a part of me, and that was the reason of (creating a big difference between me and other members of the Muslim Brotherhood who suffer from the lack of education and they depend only on hearing from their sheikhs and not reading)
- In the first period I sank in the Muslim Brotherhood books and their thoughts, until I reached the stage of saturation
-Then I had to move to another stage in reading, (read Islamic books as well), especially the Islamic heritage books from outside the circle of the Muslim Brotherhood books.
- Here I started discovering out the huge gap between the Brotherhood and Islamic thought in general, and that things are not complicated and “specific codified” as the Muslim Brotherhood claim.
.. But all things are controversial and have much side of views in many ways. I started to feel that Muslim Brotherhood’s ideology is very closed and extremist.
- In addition to that, which is most important, behavior within the group of Muslim Brotherhood itself, is not democratic.
.. I found that all talk about the “Shura” … Is “imaginary” … All orders come to us from above , whatever we sat down together as a team and discussed and decided resolutions , in the morning we find everything is opposite of what we have decided with a sovereign decision.
- Even once, I commented on their way of dealing, with the phrase “I do not know when we goanna get rid of those decisions which drop over our head with parachute “!!
I was surprised two days later, that One of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Alexandria, was arranging a meeting for just our group and he talked about confidence in the leadership, and he repeat my sentences I said exactly , and said it’s not appropriate .
Of course I felt after, that I have been working with a “intelligence service agency”, that transfer even breath to the leadership, and I faced a lot of problems for that.
- After that, we finished discussed topics with a visit to sheikh “Youssef Al karadawy” in his home. We were a group consisting of (Me, some of our group and some educated Brothers of Muslim Brotherhood – who also left of Muslim Brotherhood after that -).
- Also, a group of brothers of Alexandria came to visit sheikh Youssef Al karadawy (whom we named “central security”. That was an expression we named with Muslim Brotherhood “who were literally committed to obeying without thinking in orders.
The Important is, we have arrived and attended part of the meeting and we discussed problems of the group.
Then we stayed the rest of the day in Cairo, and then went back at night to Alexandria to discover that there is a written report against us with all details of the dialogue we had in Cairo in morning… And that we were turning to investigation with the third man in Alexandria Muslim Brothers “Mohammed Hussein”, who was at the same time a member of the people Council.
- So, we had two different opinions inside our group. I’ve been refusing to go through investigation , for I believe I didn’t do something wrong by visiting Al Karadawy, and even told one of my colleague of the Brotherhood: what if we were visited Shiekh “Amin Al Alem” !!What would they do with us!!?
Another one in the group was agreeing to attend the investigation and we face investigate them.
- finally we chose to go. Actually we went with one of the Central leaders to attend the investigation, but we were surprised that “Mohammed Hussein” didn’t come … And because I’m nervous by nature , I felt offended … and that was the end of my relationship with Muslim Brotherhood , because when they came to inform me with another date I refused and told them I resigned. This was in 1993.
• You said that: 99% of the Muslim Brotherhood members are being recruited to the group. What is the basis for selection the members of the Brotherhood to be recruited within the group?
- The first basis for recruitment is the Security … Means 
• can you say that: “selecting Brotherhood members that lack of education, and count on hear of their sheikhs not reading” … is intended basic choosing of a member of the Muslim Brotherhood?
- No, not intentional, But they do not seek to redress this imbalance wrong. Means: the Muslim brotherhood member enters the Group ignorant and remains ignorant, even after 100 years. And people who have highly trends to hear and obey, this is because their mental abilities are less from my point of view.
• If we give a rate, how much is the percentage of Muslim brothers who you named: “central security” that carry out orders without thinking … Compared with the intellectuals Brotherhood members or those who lead others?
- The percentage of the “central security” group” of the Muslim Brotherhood is about 95%. It is not a necessary that the commander is educated. Most commanders or leaders are of the kind of “central security.”
• In the promoted phase of the candidate for membership to make sure of his validity as a working member… Give me examples of this validity test?
- The validity Test called “the cycle of escalation” and that held for a three-days, in which the leader who in charge ,makes sure that the individual had learned and memorized three parts of the Quran, and he put a test of obedience for the new member , that include ( the request for fast-and-breakfast together ) ..
Also a process of discussion on some issues happens, to make sure that the person’s thought full of Muslim Brotherhood ideology without impurities.
In the last day, they dedicate a full day in one of the mosques as “Ei’tikaaf” (dedication the day to God) … where the new member Read a letter of the teachings, and had some lectures. At the end of the day the member goes home, and we discovered after that it was a “cycle of escalation,”, The period before being a real member (means : we did not become Brothers yet) … And now we are Brothers ..
Moomen commented on what he just said: “I’ll tell you the truth, I felt like I’m a jerk when I discovered that. They were deceiving us all the time, till we became real Muslim brotherhood members.
• You commented on the sovereign decisions, which come to you from above with a phrase and it was conveyed to leaders and you felt that you are working with “intelligence service”, … Is the work of extremists Islamic groups including the Muslim Brotherhood, Already work on planting one or more members to spy on the rest of the members, And conveying information to the commander or the supreme authority congregation?
- It is not a kind of planting someone, but the official in charge of the place or the “family group”… (Muslim Brotherhood cell called the “family” and its president called “captain”), who is responsible to inform the person above him, all the details of the work, even the word that he hear. Especially if the word refers to a “defect in the understanding” (this is a Muslim brothers expression, means that there is a defect in Brotherhood member’s thoughts).
• Is the principle of Shura (consult each other in all matters) that you said it was “an imaginary”, and that all authorities are actually in the hands of the commander of the group , Is this applicable to your small group only or for all groups of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis and jihadis?
- Moomen replies: yes, this is applicable to all groups of the Muslim Brotherhood; perhaps the recent events in the group confirm this.
• You said: “You find yourself getting through many problems, just for objecting to obey without thinking, the orders of the leader guide” … What kind of problems that non-obedient member was faced with? Are there any type of punishment, he is imposed to get through?
- Obedient Member of the Brotherhood is forced to have investigation with him … (that’s what happened when we visited Sheikh Qaradawi)
Also a kind of marginalization of his work happens. I mean, after a short time, I was taken away of my position, as an administrator of the cultural committee at the university.
I remember the only time that I was allowed – after marginalization – to meet with the Muslim Brotherhood members to speak to them about the educational program, Which member Can follow to educate himself, the leader in Charger of that meeting has ridiculed me more than once ,as if he was promoting people to neglect my thoughts and ideas .
Of course, this is beside I was forced to meet with many leaders of the group, To have discussion for my thoughts…!!
One of the things that I laugh when I hear now is that “Ibrahim Za’farani” – a Muslim Brotherhood member – is opposed now to all what I was opposed to since 18 years ago. In that time, He was formerly against my thoughts and tried to prove to me I am wrong. Now he agrees with me.
• You said: “till they reach to the stage of “Well we needed to do something for Islam and we have to save the Muslims from oppression and restore the “Sharia of Allah” (Islamic legislation of God), What kind of persecution that they convince you that the Muslims are facing?
- They consider “Non-implementation of Sharia” kind of oppression. The arrests of some members of their groups, they considered also a persecution against Muslims, not just the Brotherhood.
Also , they say that : “ as we are all Muslims, so there nothing called Egyptian, Syrian or Malaysian” , so they used to fill a Muslim Brotherhood member’s mind with thoughts like: “That Muslims are persecuted in the Philippines ,The province of Ogaden , in Ethiopia, beside Palestine of course, they are persecuted also. Therefore, it’s required that we save our sisters and brothers in religion from the persecution.
- What is meant by: (to return the “Sharia of Allah” (Islamic legislation of God)? Do they mean applying Islamic legitimate punishment, for example? Or did they plant in members minds the idea that the state and the people as who they are now are atheists’, with the target of controlling the reins of authorities, for example?
- They don’t not accuse others with explicitly atheism … But they consider not applying Islamic legitimate punishment, is the “greatest evil” which must be removed.
As for their vision of how to apply Islamic legitimate punishment, most of what they’re talking about is the formalities Such as (cutting the hand of the thief , the stoning of adulterous till death and , extra …), the prevention of alcohol and punish who drinks it, and so….
.. But they do not discuss other economic or political issues, because they have no specific view about it.
.. I asked even once, one of their leaders, during my problems with them, “If you Muslim brothers managed to control and have the power to rule, would you approve establishing a Communist Party? He replied, ” Oh brother Moomen , we don’t want to be “Aroitien” (this is a school was featured in the Islamic jurisprudence assumes issues didn’t happen yet, and start to make “fatwa” for it , and this why they were named as “Aroitien” because they were staring their discussion with the question “Araiit ? Means: do you see that …?”) So, it was clear that they (Muslim Brotherhood) don’t have any perception of those issues.
That is why when I talk with them now; I do not speak in generalities… so I never ask one of them about the status of Christians if they get to rule? Because they would stay tell stories from history, and answer with Koranic chapters, which they themselves are convinced it’s replicated. But when I ask a specific question such as: “Do Muslim Brotherhood approve the Christians to be Chief of Staff? Here “stuttering” begins in their speech”, they don’t know what say, and scandals of their attitude revealed.
• What is the kind of work assigned to a member of the Brotherhood?
- The kind of work in the Brotherhood group is divided to two main types, no matter of what section the member follow,
first Part is responsible of the media, elections, politics, art and all of that issues. The Cultural Committee was part of the work within the University of Alexandria.
And another part is responsible for the recruitment of individuals and includes them into the group and subjected them to the educational programs of the group.
Often people who work in this part are unknown or semi-famous in contrast to the first type.
This comes as a result of the nature of their work within the group … Because they deal with individuals. Both in the recruitment process for the group or what Muslim Brotherhood call, “the process of education” to those who are within the group.
And also Department of Education, nearly all of them related to the “Security Central” , and if those open their mouth in front of the media or at conferences, union or political conferences , you’ll hear the sweeter “rubble” , like .. (The Hell with Egypt, democracy is atheism, conspiracies of the Jews and the Christians, we can stand hunger but we can’t stand that anyone dare to affect our religion….) and stuff like those thoughts which reveal the Muslim Brotherhood hell in thinking .
• Is Muslim Brotherhood’s strategy of penetration into universities and official institutions has a kind of principles in Muslim Brotherhood ideology?
- Certainly, the Muslim Brotherhood interest of penetrating inside universities is exist since Hassan al-Banna (the spiritual leader of Muslim Brotherhood)time ..
Every university has a separate administrator department within the students section… & the workers, of the university’s are full-time workers, and advocated to that work completely.
For example, I was from “Moharram Bey” district, and didn’t involved in any activity takes place in the neighborhood, because I was affiliated to the university.
• you said that the various readings protected you from falling into the clutches of the only quality of reading imposed upon you by Muslim Brotherhood, namely, religious reading, … Do you think that specifying readings with just the Islamic one for members of Muslim Brotherhood is intended by the Muslim Brotherhood ideology? Why?
- Surely this is intentional … And not only Islamic religious readings, But Islamic religious-based on Muslim Brotherhood approval also. Means for example, it was a major sin in group to read to someone like, “Abdullah al-Nafisi,” (A Kuwaiti Islamic thinker) … to ensure that no member will go out of border of Muslim Brotherhood ideology.
Muslim Brotherhood member must read just Muslim Brotherhood books all the time, to ensure controlling his mind.
• What are the essential Islamic books that should be studied by Muslim Brotherhood member? And what primary thoughts it contained?
- Islamic books vary from time to time depending on the stage. But generally the preliminary or primary member, who is still not active member , study books and an explanation of the Islamic conversation that urges to abide with Islamic teaches , the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice .. And work for Islam and study and memorized three parts of the Koran…
Worker member stage, Consider studying matters related to jihad, sacrifice, martyrdom … And giving themselves for the sake of Allah (God), With the Messages of “Hassan al-Banna”.
• We always hear the expression “they get through brainwashed” Is it possible that this expression is true? … And that those books to be studied by Muslim Brotherhood member has actually a magic effect in the minds… to make the person after reading it … Just follower and implementer to any extremist religious thoughts or work?
- It is certainly possible to call it “brainwashed”. Because the process of focusing on books and characters of the Brotherhood’s only to receive from. And the rejection to receive from any other source, Even if it was Islamic, is Intended to ensure that nothing affect on individual Brotherhood with any other ideas or opinions.
And I would like to chock you with, That even the characters like, “Mohamed Amara” and “Selim Al-Awa,” and “Fahmi Huwaidi” … are Not in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood group members to read for them .
The group do not use them except in the public events, or debates and lectures for big audience. But do not ever use them in any educational activities for the internal members of the group.
• Is there also a refusal to deal with Yusuf al-Qaradawi? Why?
- Yes there was a refusal to deal with Qaradawi because he left the group and speak frankly about internal problems of the group. He even advised us not to leave the group and stay there to fix it from the inside. Perhaps you remember the extent of violence which have been dealt with him by the Muslim Brotherhood against the “site of Islam Online,” for it is related to Sheikh Qaradawi, because of the site expose to the farce of the election of Muslim guide, “Mohammad Badi” and the Guidance Office and the crisis of Essam el-Erian.
The matter has reached the extent of exclusion of al-Qaradawi from the presidency of the Qatari Society, which oversees the site.
• Who are the Ideal leaders’ sheikhs for the Muslim Brotherhood?
- Ideal leaders for Brotherhood are the leaders and sheikhs of the Muslim Brotherhood themselves.
Of course, led by Hassan al-Banna, who had been given many of the titles made him a semi-prophet, like he is the “Imam Shaheed “Martyr sheikh” inspiring talented renewed the twentieth century” and comes after him Sayyid Qutb, of course, named with “the martyr of the Quran and the owner of the shadows.”
• What do you think of the Salafis sheikhs’ are on the media scene now… Such as Muhammad Hassan, Jacob, and Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Badi … And others? Do you think they can really contribute with a positive role in solving the issue of sectarian strife, in which officials started to use them to solve it?
- Salafis are more related to the heritage and tribal heritage, but their thought basically revolves around the “Hanbali” doctrine, with interpretations of “Ibn Taymiyyah” and Ibn al-Qayyim, and finally Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab They disobey and disbelieve most of the sheikh’s of the modern era, led by Jamal al-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh ..!!
These Salafis sheikh’s “have 3 types of speech …
= A letter to the public media such as newspapers, television and internet sites.
= Speech in the mosques for Muslims.
= An internal Speech to all members of the group.
“They cannot be part of the solution … Simply because they are the basis of sectarian problem” Moomen says.
It is important to mention for example that one Muslim Brotherhood hymns, which talks about the conspiracy against Islam … One of its verses Says, describing the conspirators against Islam:
“They are Communists
The root of the Dog Jews ******
And crusaders as the mean wolves”
Moomen continues: How can someone have this idea can be used to solve the sectarian problem? Or how a person called Christians “Servants of the Cross” could be a part of the solution to the problem?
• Is the lack of alternatives other parties at this period, also is the reason for directing people to the Muslim Brotherhood or Salafi now?
- I think yes, because those who love practice politics used to find nothing but the National Party and brothers Group. So, the sight used to go direct to the Brotherhood. I believe that this is a continuous reduction till Now. We still see a lot of bad action from the liberals’ parties; promote us to think to withdraw. Cause despite the risk surrounded all of us and may destroy us, all Liberals still so far fighting for who becomes the leader.
* How can Muslim Brotherhood eliminate in those who recruits them the Sense that the acts of murder and destruction and theft of property and blood of others.. (All non-believers of Islam) … which are acts against the principles of mercy and justice, which God created all humanity on them, so , they No longer fear God, but actually just obey the leader of the group and implement his orders?
- This is a long story. It’s Necessary to go back into doctrine and interpretation and copied and replicated in Quran … but you can say that they persuade the members that all those bad actions is “Jihad” and These are enemies .. And therefore there is no reason of God’s anger of them, on The contrary, by doing these kinds of actions; they will go to heaven directly”!!
• What do you think the reason behind turned Alexandria from being bride of the Mediterranean Sea, Pride of cultures mixing, into the stronghold of the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis?
- I have a personal point of view for that. I considered the reason is the rural Attack on Alexandria. It was the basis of the Islamic movement founded in Alexandria. Those are who came to Alexandria to study at the university in the late sixties and early seventies. And because rural people by nature are conservative, they were chocked When they come to Alexandria with everything it was carrying specially opened culture. So, they were shocked, isolated and escaped to religion, which caused them to fight against what they consider immorality and debauchery.
And if you turned to places of concentration of those in Alexandria you’ll Find that it was an old agricultural areas such as the “Backus” fortified strongholds now.
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* What is your analysis for the Muslim Brotherhood direction now to break union movement by establishing independent unions separate of all political unions and groups, professional associations and sports clubs, in addition to establishing play teams?
- Moomen: Muslim Brotherhood, in general, likes to excel than the rest of the other trends and groups
So, if they have done any work, there’ll be no confusion that this magnificent and beautiful work is related to the Muslim Brotherhood. Their ideology aims to gain the support of the people.
Also, Muslim Brotherhood does not cooperate with any party or other group, unless they have to. Most of the time they do that with a kind of arrogance, as they see themselves the strongest and the best , and that this cooperation is kind of the decency of them . Once the Muslim brothers are done with their purpose, they threw the other party at the nearest “trash bin”.
Therefore, you’ll notice that in the previous period- When it was not possible to establish separate entities for them- Once they took over the syndicate or association or organization, they color it with their own color
So, Even a blind will realize that this place follow the Muslim Brotherhood.
Moomen continues: We used to make fun of this and say “they must raise their flag” Because at that time, it was not good for them to disclose the orientation of Muslim Brotherhood of Unions for example. This why the matter end with that all the unions turned into Muslim Brotherhood political unions, not unions to serve the people of the profession.
• Why it is used to be said that, some of the symbols of the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafi, jihadists also perhaps, Fear to face criticism with giving further explanation of their philosophy and ideology? Why they face criticism by threatening and intimidating those who thought and dared to criticize them?
- You’ll find The answer to this question in the folds of my words about the weak culture and education among all members of these Muslim Brotherhood groups ..
You can say that the most educated member of them is the one who read the Heritage Books at most.
Even such as these educated people – despite it’s a very limited education – they’re considered - a few in number.
As for the rest is sank in reading just small manuals simple books of university .. Or listen to lectures and seminars of the group’s leaders and Sikh’s only.
They tend to cultural illiteracy and they are ignorant in general. So, how can they face thought with thought..? ..
They apply the proverb “attack other people with loud voice unless they beat you”
• Do you think that the attack on churches… And the targeting of Copts by killing, and destroying and burning their property is something that comes by chance, controlled by the bullying, As some authorized and officials said to the media? .. Or it is organized actions that a number of Muslim Brotherhood or Salafi jihadists or a combination of those come Behind it to highlight their dominance and their power to control this country? Or it’s a desire to terrorize the Christians, until they emigrate and leave their own country? Or it is because of a quite another reason? What is it?
- Moomen Confirms: the attack on Christians is not random and not bullying, But it’s methodically work “to humiliate non-Muslims” in general.
.. Christians are just the beginning…. These Muslim Brotherhood groups want to go back to the era of the forced Islamic taxes over non- Muslims, The era of discrimination non-Muslims with certain suits… And not make any restoration to their worship churches until they collapsed or demolished. And of course it will not be restored.
What is currently happening of incidents of violence against the Copts, they considered as a process “to break the Christians”, which they see they became a very quiet strong, especially in the era of Mubarak.
- They’re convinced also that Copts are deriving their power from the West … So, they must be broken. And Copts have to choose either to succumb (to Muslim Brotherhood) , or to .. Leave
Can we say that, the principle of (Applying Islamic Legitimate Punishments…. After we take control of the Land)…That was said by one of the Islamic Sheikhs’…. Meant by that “After we take control of every land including the land that over it the properties of the Christians Currently in Egypt?”
- I don’t think that he meant owning the possessions of the Christians or the Non-Muslims… but what he meant was taking the complete control over Egypt and the Egyptians… and there isn’t any party that can own Egypt including those living in it… Unless being in power.. So the Muslim Brotherhoods are waiting to reach to power and authority to apply The Islamic Legitimate Punishments.
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- So don’t believe what is being said about they care to apply the will of the people and what the people will agree upon, they’ll implement!
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- . The Islamic legitimate punishments for the Muslims are Religious Orders and whoever won’t apply it, even though of his capability to carry out the order, becomes in their Jurisprudence an “Infidel.”
- And if anyone questioned the fact that these orders aren’t implemented in Turkey, The answer would be because of the Turkish Army will turn against them, if it sensed that they’re trying to turn the Country into an Islamic Country, that’s why they’re forced not to apply the Islamic Legitimate.
- I watched more than one video about the plan of the Muslim Brotherhood to Turn Europe and America into Islamic countries…. Starting from the intentional increase in birth rate of the Muslims in these countries and ending by forcibly converting the Non-Muslims into Muslims by the sword and violence once the Muslims become the Majority in these countries…Is this correct and is there a hidden plan by the Muslim Brotherhood to achieve this?
- Moomen answers instantly: Of Course! The Ultimate goal for the Muslim Brotherhood – as Mentioned by Hassan El-Banna- is becoming “The Masters of the world” or in other words “Taking Control over whole World” . For sure turning Europe and America into Islamic Countries is a part of their plans and they’re heading towards it. however I don’t expect any results for these plans soon because they still have three stages that aren’t completed yet which are: establishing an Islamic Community, An Islamic Country and establishing the Islamic Caliphates and afterwards, Comes “The Mastery of the World” meaning Taking control over the world .
- What’s the difference between the 3 stages in the appearance of each stage? Or in how it will be achieved or establishing solid ground for each stage? And what are the means they’re going to use to ensure the implementation of each stage?
- Moomen Explains: “Hassan El-Banna” defined the method of work of the Brotherhood group to achieve Control and Ruling:
(The Muslim Person – The Islamic Family – The Islamic Community – The Islamic Country – The Islamic Caliphates – The Mastery of the World) and of course what is meant by Muslim is being “Islamic Brotherhood”
And how to achieve this, is through the person (the Muslim Brotherhood female and male member) get married one another and to have children to be raised as Muslim Brotherhood family and the Family becomes Islamic (by the Islamic Brotherhood meaning)…
So, with Family with another family with another one…. Results will be an Islamic Community (in other words the operation of making an Islamic Community).
Of course if the community turned into an Islamic Community by the means of the Muslim Brotherhood then spontaneously, the country will turn into an Islamic Country (that’s what the religious leader meant by saying “We’ll discipline the community until they come asking us by himself to apply the Islamic legitimate).
And Of course not only the Egyptian Islamic Brotherhood is working towards this goal (from a long time) but the Muslim Brotherhoods in other countries too. As Egypt becomes an Islamic Country and another in Sudan, alongside with Gaza with another in Libya and in Iran and Turkey and then these countries unite together and start applying the United Islamic Caliphates.
And afterwards they’ll Invade the world to be “The Master of the World” or (controlling the world) like what is commonly said, slowly but confident.
So a question just popped out… does that mean that the simultaneous revolutions that are currently occurring in the Arab Countries in the same time, aren’t coincidence but they’re being motivated and controlled by the Islamic Brotherhood with great professionalism, to complete the second stage of their plans which is achieving the Islamic Caliphates?
Moomen answers after minutes of thinking: Smart questions indeed are that enlighten the mind and make the person realize things he didn’t notice before.
Look, I can’t assure you that these simultaneous revolutions are their plans, but according to some of the online readings and words I heard from an American friend, assures that these revolutions are planned by an American organization called “Crisis Group” that belongs to the Jewish Billionaire “George Soros”, the exact same organization that planed the revolutions of Serbia, Ukraine and all around it in Iran but failed. That was what my friend told me and I heard that from one of the members of this organization himself, he was confessed that they played a role through the Movements of 6th Of April.
And what was on the internet said that this organization is in contact with the Muslim Brotherhood and they coordinated with them before the revolutions.. And there are other words saying that “El-Baradei” is a member of the Committee dealing with the crisis that’s a part from the organization of “George Soros” that is also related to the revolutions and of course you know about “El-Baradei‘s” strong relation with the Muslim Brotherhood.
You can say that it is kind of a “puzzle” (bits and pieces are separated and needed to be reassembled correctly and connected it with each other to solve the mystery)… I think if we assembled the pieces together we can reach a conclusion that the Muslin Brotherhood planned these simultaneous revolutions alongside with international partners.
Important Sources for the reader: Some of the online newspapers that published about the relation between “Soros” with El-Baradei with the Muslim Brotherhood:
http://www.elaph.com/Web/news/2011/2/633526.html
http://egy-after-25.blogspot.com/2011/03/blog-post_3092.html
- Are the Islamic verses like these :
* ”I’ve been ordered (profit Mohamed said) to fight people until they testify that God is Allah (God) and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah (God) and they establish prays (pray). And pay Zakat ( alms ) if they (people) did that , they’ll save their blood and money from me (from my punishment ) according to the right of Islam and the self in God .
When the sacred months pass (Ramadan and other monthes), then kill the polytheists where you find them and surround them and set for them every stratagem (repentance 5).
And slay them (who ever don’t take Islam as his own religion) where you find them and don’t take any of them as president or ruler over you….. Kill them (Christians and Jews) and God will chastise them with your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the hearts of folk who are believers (Muslims).
Are these Islamic verses along with many others , the reason behind the Islamic Brotherhood and the Salafis and the Jehadiin way of thinking to kill, steal and destroy anything or anyone that opposes them in religious believes till he converts to Islam or pay taxes humiliated or be killed?
- Moomen Answers: Concerning the Religious Islamic verses and conversations that exhort to killing, I think that the Muslim brotherhood, Salafis and Jehadiin adopted a certain interpretations to these versus is reason that added to them this violence.
Because there are different interpretations for those verses and conversations.
The religious interpreters that believe in “copied and replicated” chapters in Qur’an makes those verses replicated to all versus of peace, righteousness and justice with all non-Muslim.
Even so, some say that the “Verse of the Sword” was replicated (canceled) 120 verse that concern with the peaceful dealing with non Muslims , while there are some religious interpreters refuse the idea of replication in the Qur’an , so they add “Verse of the Sword” and all verses of war to the verses of peace.
Moomen continues: “There is a part in the Islamic studies called the Science of the Qur’an which is specialized in studying the Qur’an and interpreting and it’s divided into different divisions according to their functions ( – Reasons for Descending of the Qur’an – Arabic Language – The Judgments’ Verses – Qur’an – copied and replicated verses .)
Moomen explains: There some verses in the Qur’an that is contradicted, for example:
(God does not forbid you from dealing kindly and justly with those who have neither fight you nor drive you out of your homes or lands , for Allah (God ) loves those fair people ), “Al forbids”
The verse is clear and direct concerning the relation with the Non-Muslims is based on Justice and righteousness, as long as there isn’t any Assault or Persecution.
Bu the following verse which is called “The Sword Verse” says:
When the sacred months pass (Ramadan and other months), then kill the polytheists where you find them and surround them and set for them every stratagem (repentance 5)
In this case, because the two verses are contradicted, some religious Islamic scientists agreed about “replication” which means that the verses that descended in the end cancel the verses that descended in the beginning. Meaning that the Sword Verse that descended after the verses of righteousness, Justice and kindness to those Non-Muslims, so it cancels them. They even say that this verse canceled the 120 verse that concerns with the kind dealing with Non-Muslims.
Of course, there are some religious scientists refused this interpreting, and said: how come God descends verses then cancel or crosses them out?!!
It doesn’t make sense at all. So they said there isn’t anything called replicated or verses to be canceled, but every verse is applied according to its condition and situation.
Or as it is said, every situation has its own verse that applies to it, so ,if the situation was concerning peace then the peace verses are applied , but if any assault occurred and the situation led to war then the war and killing verses must be applied.
The problem is that the Islamic groups is adopting and believing in extreme interpretations to the Qur’an and Sunna.
In other words, in Egypt for example, there are Non-Muslims who are living along with us and there isn’t any war nor Persecution between us, on the contrary we’re neighbors, co-workers, friends and may be familial related (through marriage) too, so how come can we fight them, force them to pay taxes for Muslims, not dealing with them and not even saying hello?!! In this case, the verses of righteous, kindness and Justice must be applied.
But if Israel for example attacked Egypt, here of course there isn’t any way for righteousness, nor Justice nor kindness but war and fighting verses must be applied.
- If these verses are bases in the Islam religion, then on what bases does a big number of Muslims adopt them? In the same time another part of Muslims refuse it?
- Moomen Answers: these aren’t the bases of Islam but the bases of Islam are the ”Five Corners”, as for the reasons behind the belief of many Muslims in the extremist interpretations of the texts , it comes because of two main things, the First is because the destroy “Al Azhar Institution” by Abd ElNasr and by the law of improving the Azhar , then completely destroyed it through the extremities of the mass media of the Islamists groups which is the second reason , through recorded cassettes , or their TV broadcast, or their free printed brochures that are handed over to the people.
and what’s more dangerous than that is the Friday Religious speeches and the Mosque classes which led to the complete shut up of the Azhar , till those extremist Islamic took control of the grip of the Minds of Muslims and they reformed them,
According to their extreme believes.
And to prevent Al Azhar from giving them the chance to purify the Muslim’s minds from their extreme believes, they stuck the charge of “The Religious Scientists of Sultan or Power authority” to the Shiekhs of El Azhar.
So when An Azhar Shiekh says that the complete veil is a habit , then other extremist Muslims accuse him he’s taking orders from the government, and when he says it’s ok to pay charity to build churches then he’s taking orders from the government and so on.
And it happens a lot when Muslims hear listen to an Azhar Sheikh is talking about treating the Non-Muslim in a good mannered way you’ll find the first comment that pops out: (This Sheikh is taking to orders from the government).
These acussation happens because these extremist Islamist groups like to Justify their extremist believes that originated from the Arab peninsula because of Mohamed Ebn Abd El-Wahab and his extremist believes and thoughts that was unaccepted by a lot of Islamic Religious scientists once he appeared in the picture , starting with the Islamic Tunisian or Turkish Scientists replied back to him until The Ottomans appealed to Mohamed Ali to kill him and Ibrahim Basha managed to kill him in the “Shield War” (M3araka el Der3eya).
but unfortunately they managed to resurface again and invade the thoughts and believes of Egyptian Muslims and forced their extremist believes on the Egyptians and managed to increase its publicity among those ignorant and not educated ones, which resulted that the leaders of the extremist Islamist groups became the Islamic religion reference which caused the Muslims to adopt the extremist believes.
- Is the existence of the verse and its opposite of it in most commandment in The Qur’an, the main reason for the clashes between the different point of views concerning dealing with those non-Muslims, between those that look to the positive side that says (To find the closest friendly person you is the Christians, because among them, there are Priests and Monks).
and between those who adopt the verses that promote killing the Non-Muslims like: (I “profit Mohamed” was ordered to Kill people till they believe that there isn’t any God Other than Allah “God” and that Mohamed is God’s Messenger and pray and pay “Gezyah” (special Islamic taxes, that non-Muslims must pay to Muslims) and if they (non- Muslim) did that, they’ll save their blood and neck from My Sword)? And what’s the solution for this Contradictory?
- Moomen Answers: the solution for this Contradictory and any contradictory between the Qur’an and the Sunna, or in other words, if there are contradictions between the Islamic religious conversations and a verses, then the conversation should be hit against the wall because it isn’t of that importance.
The Qur’an has the priority the Islamic conversations specially , if you know, that Muslims started writing down the Islamic conversations in the times of Amr Ebn Abd ElAzeez, which is after 100 years of messenger Mohamed time. So throughout these 100 years, the conversations were spread by oral means.
So you can imagine the amount of Misrepresentation, fraud and lying that got mixed up with it.
For you to imagine the amount of fraud that happened, if we searched, we would have found that “ELBokhary” didn’t accept to approve other than 4 thousand Islamic conversations from a total of 600 thousand conversations he had heard!!
In your opinion, how do you find the pathway that would lead Egypt out of this ruin and the extremist of believes that is held by a not small number of its Islamic Sons, so that path may lead Egypt to a better civilized country that believes in the multicultural and the religious freedom for each person to freely choose what to believe in, especially religion ?
- Moomen Answers: To fix this situation, these important coming points are required to be achieved:
- Strengthen Al-Azhar.
- Destroying the Mass Media for the Islamist Groups.
- Constructing a Stronger Mass Media to be run with opening mind Muslims.
- intellectual confrontation to the extremist believes is required because the security solution has proven its failure, so intellectual confrontation to these believes is the solution.
- Improve of the school curriculum is Required .
- Al Azhar must take back its position and functions as a guide and supervisor over the Islamic speeches.
- Return of all Mosques to be under the auspices of the Ministry of Awqaf (Mortgage) which is a solution in all of the Gulf States
- (For example in the Gulf States nobody is allowed to give a Friday speech without a permit from the Ministry of Awqaf [Mortgage] and also the speech is written down and the religious speaker can’t say anything not written down. Even the prayer at the end of the speech is written down and isn’t permitted to add anything).
- Firm laws are required against anyone promote or broadcast or publish or speak a preaching speech against any religion or race and incites for hatred or discrimination against non-Muslims.
- Also, the Non-Muslims should ask for their rights (for example I was shocked when I heard that the Christian guy in Upper Egypt who had his ear cut, gave up his rights and it was really a stupid reaction of him because he gave up Egypt’s right as a whole, not just his own).
- Non-Muslims should ask for their rights completely as Egyptians and being part of the nation, but asking for their rights as a minority that will isolates them more, so they have to become members of political parties and become active and impose their presence by their activity and movement within the political party and in the Streets of Egypt.
Finally Moomen, why did u choose to establish an online newspaper with the name of “Civic Egypt” and be its Editor in chief? Do you believe that Egypt should be civil country? And Why?
_ Moomen answers: The establishing of the online newspaper “Civic Egypt” is an attempt to spread the idea of a civil Egyptian country by considering Egypt as a home for all religions and the guard of the freedom of belief.
On the base of “You have your religion and I have mine” because without the spread of the culture of accepting the other person and return of the Egyptians to their pure nature as a united nation, part of it are Muslims, others are Christians or Jews or with a different belief, But they are all Egyptians in the end, have the same rights, obliged to same duties and it depends in the end upon the efficiency,
Without that, Egypt is heading towards abyss either through an internal explosion tearing Egypt apart and dividing it into small fighting countries like what currently happening in Sudan and that would be a catastrophe that the first central nation and country known by human history will goes into parts , or the Persecution of Christians will become a pretext to impose punishments over Egypt , or even end with a conquer from other foreign countries that would destroy Egypt totally .
And the civil Country will be able to push Egypt up and here I always love to point out to the experience of Mohamed Ali Basha, the man who managed to make Egypt’s Glory and to head towards the up rise of Egypt in forty years. Till the foreign invasion and the wrong political strategies by his sons that screwed up everything.
I hope that Civic Egypt won’t be just a cultural publishing site that is spread by individual efforts but I dream of it as a big association that will activate to spread the Secular Culture and the Liberal thought and lead to the up rise of Egypt under the emblem “Egyptian – Secular – Liberal”
The interview and translation is by:
Mary Fikry.
